kamuisuki
Regular Member
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Posts: 499
OS: Windows Me
Theme: 5048
CPU: Intel Pentium III-S Tualatin
RAM: 2048
GPU: GeForce 3Ti 500
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Post by kamuisuki on Aug 7, 2024 0:08:49 GMT -8
Hello ,
I feel, with time , we are getting so mutch programs doing same things.. and maybe doing conflict.. For example all things i'm using.. and i dont know what to choose.. they are doing a bit same thing, other same with other options.. ..
Is there one of those programs i shoud not use?(Win11 22h2) which program using in priority for :
-command bar like 7
-Listview
-Border
-Rounded corner disabling
-Status bar
-Button size?
-search bar?
-command bar size
- .. etc..
i'm totally lost and pretty sure some settings did other not working.
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NanamiMadobe
Sophomore Member
Likes trying to be Tech Savvy and learn more about Tech, also huge OS-Tan Fan!
Posts: 241
OS: Windows 10 (22H2)
Theme: Default
CPU: Intel Core i7-8550U @ 1.80GHz
RAM: 8.00 GB (7.9 GB usable)
GPU: Intel UHD Graphics 620 (Integrated), NVIDIA MX150 (Dedicated)
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Post by NanamiMadobe on Aug 7, 2024 0:58:24 GMT -8
Yeah I feel ya not only that they take up and waste alot of disk space and ram usage we just need a better solution for customizing, modding, and tweaking Windows in the future.
Because this can't keep happening its too confusing too many programs doing the same thing as they conflict with each other its a mess just because Microsoft won't give us back Windows XP and 7 they where way simpler to use and back in the day we didn't have to go though all of this BS just to make them look good, be not bloated, and be usable without shoving ads in our face, you know what I blame Windows 10 and 11 for all of this! Windows 10/11 are just making thing far too complicated and too much of a hassle to use Windows anymore... man this just goes to show how trash Modern Windows can really be... Legacy Windows back when people where using pre-Windows 10 OSes this stuff didn't needed to exist.
Windows 10 and 11 just also look super ugly, have ads, bloatware, spyware so guess what we need a tool for every little thing and that is why this is starting to get out of hand we can't just have 1 program to do it all? If Windows 10 and 11 just kept the Windows 7 Start Menu and Aero Theme none of this stuff would be happening right now.
So yes I agree but you know Microsoft is to blame for this right? They are making things overly complicated just to use an operating system, customize it and use it cause that is what it would be in a better world but we all know are world is crap and we can't have nice things and we have to jump hoops just to do the things in Windows 10/11 that we could do in Windows 7 and below and make them look like Windows 7 and below too.
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Post by OrthodoxWin32 on Aug 7, 2024 2:35:14 GMT -8
kamuisuki In your screenshot, there are indeed several duplicates: - Regarding the ribbon, the option in Winaero Tweaker seems to be obsolete. This may not be the case for ExplorerPatcher's technique. - Regarding the command bar, you must first enable the ribbon, and then enable the command bar. Some tools (like ExplorerPatcher) contain both the "Ribbon" and "Command bar" options, but technically, the command bar option enables the ribbon first. - Regarding the navigation panel, I'm not really sure, but I think the option between the Windhawk mod (it may be the Aerexplorer mod, but I'm not sure) and OldNewExplorer is the same.
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Post by OrthodoxWin32 on Aug 7, 2024 2:49:44 GMT -8
kamuisuki NanamiMadobe This happened because everyone created what they needed, on their own. Over time, some techniques no longer work, and are found in other tools, with a different back-end. But this fragmentation of customization tools is not inevitable. It would be necessary to create a coherent front-end, which groups together options from several tools installed in the background. This would also avoid duplicates between options, and allow that from one version of Windows to another, the option can be identical even if the means of achieving it is not the same. Concerning the use of RAM and disk space, you have to pay attention to your impressions, it is sometimes counter-intuitive. In fact, a lot of parameters come into play. For example, using Open-Shell, by renaming the StartMenuExperienceHost.exe process saves RAM, because the Open-Shell start menu is lighter and better written. In general there are three different techniques: - Replacing the default program (like Open-Shell which replaces StartMenuExperienceHost) - Changing system files - DLL/EXE code injection Only this last technique can have reduced the system performance. It all depends on whether the code is well written. In this area, Windhawk has the advantage of being quite optimized regardless of the mod. For the others, you have to inspect the RAM and CPU consumption of the process in question. But if this is programmed correctly, the performance loss remains negligible - There are also code injections that cannot decrease performance, because they only occur once at system startup. This is the case for most methods to enable the classic theme; the code closing the theme service's access to winlogon.exe, and the theme is blocked until the user estores access. Concerning disk usage, the amount occupied by customization tools is generally very low, unless you want to compile the programs yourself. Moreover, only Windhawk takes up a significant amount of disk space, precisely because it includes a compiler (but I think it is possible to install it without the compiler).
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vindasal
Freshman Member
Posts: 73
OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2
Theme: XP Luna/Classic depending on mood
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Post by vindasal on Aug 7, 2024 3:49:53 GMT -8
It really depends on what kind of setup you're aiming for, some are very minimal.
My main gripe is with Windhawk mods that use hooks, they are very problematic. Beyond the simple annoyance of seeing that window pop up for a split second at random, the ones that simply target every executable cause major issues. They write files to the disk literally nonstop, they are small but that's not the issue. I deleted 18,000 items from the Writable folder today. It makes using programs like Everything difficult, when trying to see recently modified files it's totally junked up with these files.
Not only that but some programs cause massive system instability or crashes when the mods try to hook onto them. Some of these mods are just for Explorer but they target everything. Obviously it's possible to add exceptions, but when you're using programs that only open procedurally they get hooked constantly until the system crashes due to no RAM. Not fun adding exceptions to every single mod.
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Post by OrthodoxWin32 on Aug 7, 2024 4:50:15 GMT -8
vindasal I have never experienced any issues like this. Could you please tell me which Windhawk mods are affected?
In any case, if only one process (like Explorer) should be targeted by the mod, the
// @include * line should be removed.
Also, some mods don't target just Explorer because of the open/save window, which calls Explorer-related elements within other programs.
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Post by leet on Aug 7, 2024 7:03:55 GMT -8
Still waiting on a cooperative effort to create a fully custom shell, this would replace the need for almost all tweaks, programs and windhawk scripts.
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kamuisuki
Regular Member
~
Posts: 499
OS: Windows Me
Theme: 5048
CPU: Intel Pentium III-S Tualatin
RAM: 2048
GPU: GeForce 3Ti 500
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Post by kamuisuki on Aug 7, 2024 7:07:23 GMT -8
Still waiting on a cooperative effort to create a fully custom shell, this would replace the need for almost all tweaks, programs and windhawk scripts. i saw some video where someone just typing a script on cmd and after they got Seven skin on windows 10 or other.. but i'm not able to do that, i have no knowledge about . But it seems to be the best way . |
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NanamiMadobe
Sophomore Member
Likes trying to be Tech Savvy and learn more about Tech, also huge OS-Tan Fan!
Posts: 241
OS: Windows 10 (22H2)
Theme: Default
CPU: Intel Core i7-8550U @ 1.80GHz
RAM: 8.00 GB (7.9 GB usable)
GPU: Intel UHD Graphics 620 (Integrated), NVIDIA MX150 (Dedicated)
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Post by NanamiMadobe on Aug 7, 2024 7:45:58 GMT -8
Still waiting on a cooperative effort to create a fully custom shell, this would replace the need for almost all tweaks, programs and windhawk scripts. i saw some video where someone just typing a script on cmd and after they got Seven skin on windows 10 or other.. but i'm not able to do that, i have no knowledge about . But it seems to be the best way . Well I just grab some of the Windows 8.1 Shell files we can use that as an experiment on a Windows 10 VM to see if it will work. This might help cut down the amount of tools we may need to use by some amount. |
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vindasal
Freshman Member
Posts: 73
OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2
Theme: XP Luna/Classic depending on mood
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Post by vindasal on Aug 7, 2024 12:58:40 GMT -8
vindasal I have never experienced any issues like this. Could you please tell me which Windhawk mods are affected?
In any case, if only one process (like Explorer) should be targeted by the mod, the
// @include * line should be removed.
Also, some mods don't target just Explorer because of the open/save window, which calls Explorer-related elements within other programs.
It's hard to say for sure without crashing my system to reveal the names, but I know that Eradicate Immersive Menus does. I believe Explorer 32px icons, fix basic caption text, and message box fix are also affected. Any mod that hooks/injects and targets all processes, effectively.
This is not a problem in the overwhelming majority of use cases, so I am not surprised it has never come up. It's only a problem with Winboard/UCI engines in my case. I suspect any program that works in the same way is affected, but they will also fall into a niche number of users. You do make a good point about the open/save window, I hadn't thought about that. Probably this is not fixable without changing the way Windhawk works, but it is at least possible to slowly add all the exes to exception lists.
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Post by Brawllux on Aug 7, 2024 13:09:15 GMT -8
Hello ,
I feel, with time , we are getting so mutch programs doing same things.. and maybe doing conflict.. For example all things i'm using.. and i dont know what to choose.. they are doing a bit same thing, other same with other options.. ..
Is there one of those programs i shoud not use?(Win11 22h2) which program using in priority for :
-command bar like 7
-Listview
-Border
-Rounded corner disabling
-Status bar
-Button size?
-search bar?
-command bar size
- .. etc..
i'm totally lost and pretty sure some settings did other not working.
I don't understand why you highlighted the option "appearance style" in ONE. It only changes the appearance of cpl shine image and 7 style commandbar. Only thing that can interfere with it is the system theme. And the option "navigation pane style" in aerexplorer is only gonna change the padding between items,also not related to anything you show here.
You are right about the other stuff tho.
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Post by OrthodoxWin32 on Aug 7, 2024 15:32:33 GMT -8
It's hard to say for sure without crashing my system to reveal the names, but I know that Eradicate Immersive Menus does. I believe Explorer 32px icons, fix basic caption text, and message box fix are also affected. Any mod that hooks/injects and targets all processes, effectively.
This is not a problem in the overwhelming majority of use cases, so I am not surprised it has never come up. It's only a problem with Winboard/UCI engines in my case. I suspect any program that works in the same way is affected, but they will also fall into a niche number of users. You do make a good point about the open/save window, I hadn't thought about that. Probably this is not fixable without changing the way Windhawk works, but it is at least possible to slowly add all the exes to exception lists.
Thank you very much for this additional explanation. Concerning mods where you only need an injection in the explorer (according to your list, Eradicate Immersive Menus and Explorer 32px icons), you can remove the
// @include *
line, and add the
// @include explorer.exeline.
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Post by leet on Aug 11, 2024 11:23:28 GMT -8
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kamuisuki
Regular Member
~
Posts: 499
OS: Windows Me
Theme: 5048
CPU: Intel Pentium III-S Tualatin
RAM: 2048
GPU: GeForce 3Ti 500
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Post by kamuisuki on Aug 11, 2024 21:05:19 GMT -8
Even i don't understand all your post, i agree in the most part about.
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aldon
Freshman Member
Posts: 56
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Post by aldon on Aug 12, 2024 0:04:20 GMT -8
Hmmm... After reading Leet's article...
IMVHO we should focus on real Classic Style theme (W98, ME, Windows 2000). It works very well in W11 (until 24H2, but I hope it is also question of time).
Luna, Royale, Aero, Metro etc are not classic - OK, are historical, nostalgic, maybe fav for some etc
Maybe those more modern UIs could have sub-Boards here - to not confuse others and to be clearer in search for what people need.
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